Se också Thor vs. Zeus
Two of history's most legendary spear wielders. One, whose name echoes through the ages for his brutality in sacrifice and his willingness to do anything for more power.
The other a, a god who is known not only for his legendary skill but also for his ability to cope with any situation and to lead his armies to victory no matter what.
In this episode of Deadliest Deity, the one eyed all father Odin will face of agains the god of Versatility, Lugh![/i]
To decide which deity is the most fearsome and deadlist in battle, their power, skills and weapons will be looked at and put into perspective. Then, when all the numbers are calculated, they will be run through a simulator which wil decide the outcome of the battle... Each deity will have 4 'advantages' that might be weapon, powers or even skills that might change the outcome of the battle in favor of the one possessing the advantage.
These advantages will be given a 'hit' value, a 'damage' value, a penalty value (which decides how much more difficult things will become for the opponent), a 'speed' value and finally a 'range' value to decide the overall usefullness of the advantage to the simulator.
Hit: Hit is a measurement of the advantage's ability to occur during battle. It can be viewed as an 'accuracy' rating of the advantage, which decides if the advantage helps in the battle or not.
Damage: While Hit is a statistic that judges if it occurs, damage is the raw killing potential of a weapon The larger the number, the more potential it has to bring its target down to death's door.
Penalty: Measures the difficulty it adds to an opponents chance to cause harm and hits in return. A high penalty means that it'll be difficult to damage the one wielding this advantage.
Utility: Measures the many ways to use an advantage. An advantage that can be used for many different things has a high utility, while something that only works in a specific way has low utility.
Speed: Speed measures how fast an advantage is. If an advantage is always 'on' if it matters, it has a high speed.
Then each deity's Speed, Endurance, Strength, Training and Terrain experience will be judged before the simulation is started. Each
value will be measured agains the opponents value, simulating a battle between two opponents and taking random events and skills into account. Each value is varied by up to +/- 5% to measure without doubt that even a slight change will not alter the outcome of the battle itself. The simulation is set up to take into account such things as surprise and terrain advantage, while also allowing for standard deviations of already known variables.
The two deities will slug out in an all-out combat that over 1000 battles will determine...
WHO... IS... DEADLIEST?
"Give him a Spear! A spear for the all father! A spear to pierce the hearts of his enemies!"
Odin - Advantage: GugnirRedigera
Of all the weapons in norse mythos, only Mjolnir is more famous, and possibly more powerful. Odins spear was said to never miss its mark once thrown and it was through the throwing of this spear that Odin started the war against the Vanir. It was also Gugnir who pierced the body of Gulveig and brought on the beginning of the harm of the Vanir upon the Asgard host. (+Utility)
Forged by the very dwarves who forged Mjolnir, myth has it that Odin was so pleased with the spear that he almost ignored the rings that kept spawning. Another story tells how Odin, while testing his spear, threw it through the wall of Valhalla and saw if fly away while asking "so, how do I get it back?" much to the mirth of the other gods. (+Damage, +Range)
For all its strength however, Gugnir has several flaws as well. Some stories tell how the weapon would never stop once thrown. The spear would pierce the enemy and keep flying, possibly leaving the battle at hand. While Odin is mighty enough to bring it back with his magic, such a feat might require time and concentration (-Utility).
Also, while the spear itself is long, spears aren't exactly known for their speed in combat and the fact that if one gets inside the speartip, the wielder of the spear must somehow move back or get his foe to move back (-Speed).
The spear is however, "so balanced that it can hit any target regardless of skill of the wielder", which potentially makes it very difficult to dodge the weapon (+Hit).
The spear itself is also a symbol of Odins role as the god of war, truly displaying the force and might of Odin himself (+Damage)
Statistics: Hit: 15, Damage 15, Penalty 0, Utility 2, Speed 2, Range 5
Lugh - Advantage: AredbharRedigera
"Cry out! Lugh has arrived! His spear glowing, his hand afire!"
Facing the unnering force of Gugnir, Lugh brings forth his own spear to the battle. Differing from odin's however, Lugh's spear is not only powerful, but somewhat sentient as well! The Spear was said to lust after blood in battle and once drawn, had to be calmed down by a brew of herbs that again put the spear to sleep. Not only did it jump from foe to foe, but it also killed with impunity, never stoping once it had been thrown. Not only that, but the spear itself kept fighting no matter what, presenting an unnering foe to anyone who faces the spear itself in battle. (+Hit, +Range, +Penalty).
The spear also had a set of incantations that could be read before throwing the spear or when the spear had landed. One made it always hit its mark and another made the spear return. According to some legends, the spear had to be kept immersed in water to not burst aflame, possibly making the weapon devastatingly hurtful as it may put the foe on fire (+Utility, +damage).
However, as mentioned, the spear has a few flaws that must be adressed... The spear wants nothing else than to draw blood. It doesnt cease to fight, even if there are only allies left standing. Potentially, this means that Lugh not only has to face Odin, but his own spear once the battle is over. If he has the brew ready however, this point is moot (-Utility).
The spear does have one redeeming quality though, that will play its own special role in the simulation. The spear is mentioned as killing his grandfather, Balor. This makes the spear able to slay other gods and adds its own special uniqueness to the simulation (+Utility)
Statistics: Hit: 19, Damage 20, Penalty 2, Utility 2, Speed 2, Range, 3
Odin - Advantage: Animal CompanionsRedigera
"The wolves, Sleipner, Hugin and Munin... all served odin."
Of all the gods in norse mythos, Odin had a special amount of creatures associated with him. Not only did he have a horse with eight legs (Sleipner), but he also had two wolves and two racens that always served him. He sent out the ravens Hugin and Munin to scout the world for him and to reveal what they saw to him, warning him of any danger they could see. In his hall he was defended by the two wolves Geri and Freki, who protected Odin and acompanied him on his travels. These wolves, while difficult to judge in a combat related manner, are still influenced by the divine and will probably at least present a challenge to those who face Odin's might in combat (+Hit, +Damage, +Utility).
Most prized of all Odin's companions however, would be the two Ravens Hugin and Munin. Ever vigilant, the Ravens was sent out every day into the world to return all what they saw to Odin. Their names, roughly translateable as "Memory" and "Thought", was part of Odin's psyche in some myths and the vikings saw them as the bringers of Odin's will. The Ravens makes it nigh impossible to surprise Odin when they are present, but the Ravens aren't always there! As mentioned, Odin himself sends them away every day, so anyone who knows Odin can easily avoid his Ravens (+Utiliy, +Range).
The last of Odin's companions is the son of Loki, Slepiner. Concieved to prevent a giant from winning a bet over the Asgardians, Loki's son is the most powerful horse in the 9 worlds. Faster than any other horse thanks to its 8 legs, the horse carries Odin into battle and helps him avoid his foes. Probably steeming from pre-pagan shamanistic practices, the horse was a powerful creature that could carry Odin across the sky and into the realms beyond. (+Damage, +Hit, +Utility)
Statistics: Hit: 11, Damage 10, Penalty 2, Utility 3, Speed 3, Range, 2
Lugh - Advantage: Aenbharr & FallinisRedigera
"See, if it isn't the hound and horse of Lugh!"
[size=6][b]Lugh- Advantage: Aenbharr & Fallinis[/b][/size] If there's one thing the Irish knew how to breed, it was Wolf Hounds... Bringing to the battle, possibly knowin he's facing the god of the wolves from norse mythology, Lugh would bring Fallinis, a hound which served him loyaly over the ages. The irish are known to have had wolf-hounds for several hundred years, long before the god lugh was activly worshipped by their people. Thus we can assume that the Irish god's hound was at least similiar to the wolf Hounds of the Irish people, lending him an edge over the wolves that Odin has. (+Damage,+Utility).
Not only that, but Lugh also possess a horse that might just be what's needed to counter Sleipner. Lughs horse, Aenbharr, could achieve speeds far beyond that of any ordinary horse and it could also ride over water. However, the horse could not, as far as any myth's I've found, travel over the sky. This is a flaw in the horse as it won't be able to counter Sleipners prefer mode of travel. However, no mention of the actual speeds of the horses could be found, putting them at roughly the same top speed. This means that there's an equal draw horse against horse, with a slight edge to Sleipner for being able to travel over the sky instead of just water. (-Utility,+Hit)
Statistics: Hit: 11, Damage 5, Penalty 3, Utility 2, Speed 3, Range, 1
Odin's Animal Companions!
Skills and PowersRedigera
Odin - MagicRedigera
For he hanged himself from a tree to learn all the secrets of the world
Magic is what Odin is probably most famous for. Having sacrificed his eye to the well of Mimir and sacrificed himself to learn the secret runes of the universe. Few others have such a resistance to pain and the endurance to follow through with a self sacrifice.
Odin's magic seems mostly fate based and not the realm of the mere sorceror or wizard of classical fantasy. Instead, Odin could fling curses and blessings based upon the fate of the target of his spells. It's is said that he has cursed both men and gods with this power.
Statistics: Hit: 15, Damage 5, Penalty 3, Utility 3, Speed 1, Range 4
Lugh - Skill MasteryRedigera
...master of all the arts and crafts that dwell within the world
Lugh is famous for not only being a master of skills, but having mastered all arts and crafts that were known to men. It's possible that he could learn a skill simply by looking when another one performed it, making him into a fearsome opponent. His mastery included battle and he was famed for being nigh unstoppable in battle. He was also a sort of inventor who could easily put things together and craft anything necessary.
It's also said that when wanting to join his pantheon, the doorkeeper to the pantheon asked him what skills he possessed and he started numbering them and included sorcery. It's thus not impossible to assume that Lugh has an understanding of sorcery that might dwarf that of Odin's.
Statistics: Hit: 19, Damage 5, Penalty 1, Utility 1, Speed 3, Range 4
Lugh's Skill Mastery
Odin - EinherjarRedigera
For every man who is judged worthy upon his death shall enter Valhall and await there the end of the world
Odin, as a god of both war and death, helt command over all the souls of those departed who had been judged worthy to enter Valhalla. Upon their death, the Valkyries lifted up the spirits of those fallen and carried them towards Valhall were they would await the end of the world. When Ragnarrok came, they would then join ranks with the gods and fight against the giants and their forces and prevent them from returning the world to the formless chaos that came before.
While the Einherjar themselves are a powerful host, the question remains if they can stand up to a god. It's true that they could probably fight against Lugh's companions and add another dimension to the battle. Lugh could after all, be distracted by a dozen men attacking him from behind. While he could let his spear deal with them, he would have one less weapon to fight against Odin for the duration of the spears fight with the fallen.
Also, the Einherjar could be raised after every night so if the fight drags on, the Einherjar would return to the fight at each night.
Statistics: Hit 11, Damage 5, Penalty 2, Utility 4, Speed 1, Range 3
Lugh - SunRedigera
"...and he was driven by two goats who could be slain and ressurected!"
'Statistics: Hit: 7, Damage 5, Penalty 2, Utility 2, Speed 3, Range 2
[i]"Even Athena could use his shield, but Zeus were the owner of the one Shield that could deflect anything! The Aegis!"[/i] [size=6][b]Zeus - Advantage: Aegis[/b][/size] Not only does some myths depict the Aegis as the shield that helped Perseus, but Athena loaned the Shield and wielded it in her role as the godess of War. Other myths depict it as the final fate of the Golden Fleece, taken to Greece by Jason and then given to the gods as a sacrifice.
The shield itself was adorned by Medusa's head, and it might actually have been Medusa's real head as the shield at times had the ability to petrify those who looked at it. Also, despite that it was woven from scales and covered with pure gold, the shield itself seemed almost indestructible and ageless, never loosing its integrity or might. (+Penalty)
The shield might also have doubled as a breastplate, making it impossible to disarm the shield as long as Zeus remains concious and alive. it was apparently forged by Hephausteus and his cyclops, making it yet another weapon that Zeus could derive from the skill of his allies. Not only that, but the Shield might have made its way into Egyptian mythology too, as a shield carried by the cat headed godess Bast. Even norse mythos mentions an 'Aegis-helm', making it perhaps one of Zeus most famous weapons... (+Penalty, +Utility)
[i]Statistics:[/i] Hit: 11, Damage 5, Penalty 4, Utility 2, Speed 4, Range 0
[size=6][b]Edge:[/b] Zeus' Aegis![/size]
[i]"For they are men clad in rage and fierce strength, ignoring wounds and pain!"[/i] [size=6][b]Thor - Advantage: Berserker Rage[/b][/size] If there was one thing that made the southern people fear the vikings, it was their legendary battle rage. The very word 'berserker' hails from the norse fighters and might come from "bear" + "sark" (shirt). Thor, being the god of the vikings, was no less full of rage in battle. Quick to anger and to bring his rage to bear, Thor is well-known for his ability to funnel his strength with his powerful rage.
Many a giant has been laid low by not only Thor's strength, but also by his legendary rage. A few giants have not lived to regret their insults when Thor's mighty hammer Mjolnir has crushed their skulls. (+Damage)
Many a historian has discussed if the legendary berserker rage is induced either by drugs, alcohol or a 'madness' that comes over certain men in battle. Alcohol for example, can make a person ignore both pain and exhaustion if given in the right amount, while too much can lead to the inbrier to become slow or dozy. Drugs have a likewise effect... there are drugs that can make a person almost immune to pain and utterly resistant to anything other than permanently wounding damage. (+Penalty)
It goes without saying that Thor, according to legend, is a true berserk. His anger and battle frenzy doesn't steam from poison mushrooms or alcohol (altough they certainly have helped at times) but from the power of his own rage. Thus Thor will not be affected by the deliberating effects of alcohol nor drugs, but he might not gain the heightened pain resistance to the same extent as one under outside influences. (+Hit, +Penalty)
[i]Statistics:[/i] Hit: 19, Damage 10, Penalty 1, Utility 0, Speed 2, Range 0
[i]"...Zeus, drawing first, drew mastery over the heavens and the world!"[/i] [size=6][b]Zeus - Advantage: Sky Mastery[/b][/size] Ancient people knew how much the sky meant to them. Often, the sky gods were the most important deities of the religion and few other gods could even measure close to the power of the sky father. (+Damage)
Zeus, inspired by the proto indo-european pantheon, is what most people call 'Sky father surpreme'. Nothing in greek mythology could measure close to his control of the skies and he could decimate his foes by simply willing the wind to crush them. He can also blind his foe by calling down rain and thunder, causing mist to rise down or clouds to obscure the landscape. Many an epic has shown Zeus flying on the winds he commands and his mastery over the heavens sometimes seem cosmic in its power. (+damage, +Penalty)
However, for all his power with the wind there are few exampls of his using the sky to master immortal foes when he has his lightning bolt. Perhaps it might not matter much against a foe that is used to the crushing winds of Jotunheim? Especially as said opponent might be able to shape the winds to his own advantage... (-Hit, -Damage)
[i]Statistics:[/i] Hit: 11, Damage 5, Penalty 2, Utility 2, Speed 4, Range 3
[b]Edge:[/b] Thor's Berserker Rage!
[size=6]Thor[/size] Thor is often accompanied by his friend and companion Tialfi, who is among the fastest of the gods. He also requires his trusty goats to pull him over the sky, so there's no reason to say that Thor is faster on foot than any other deity. Thor's reactions however, are honed by hours and hours of battling giants and killing mortals who have tried to flee his wrath. [b]Speed:[/b] 62
In Asgard, there stands no equal to the sheer physical might of the God of thunder himself. His strength and endurance beyong peer, Thor is known to overpower giants that are so large that he can sleep in their gloves!
Thor's strength is nigh immesurable as he managed to lift the Midgard serpent despite that it was coiled around the world and fought against him. He has done this twice as he has also done it when out fishing with a giant. Known as among the strongest of gods, Thor's strength isn't limited by his physical form either. The dwarves of Midgard has crafted a belt, Meningjord, which doubles his already ultimate strength into something that goes beyond even the limits of the gods. Thor's strength, while impressive, doesn't always give him great agility to use it though... [b]Strength:[/b] The highest value possible +2 (as at that rank, a +2 equals a +50% strength. Thor will not always wield his belt)! 96
As per endurance, Thor has been known to almost empty the ocean when thirsty, carry things great distances and never surrendering in battle. In fact, Thor is so enduring that when injected with more etter than any other god could stand without dying, he will still overpower the Midgard serpent before succumbing to the poison. Thor however, is far from invulnerable and even though modern myths depict him as near indestructible, he can still be wounded and may fall from bloodloss. [b]Endurance:[/b] 81
Midgard is a place of myths and legends. Thor has travelled the entire width of the Scandinavian lands, even travelling as far as Vinland and back. His legend stretches from the icy polar caps to the northern tips of the Mediterreanean sea and possibly further (altough I can't confirm this). The one red thread however, is that the myths take place in the northern reaches of Europe, putting Thor at a slight disadvantage as he has seldom had any time to get used to the sands of the Sahara, the dry cliffs of the Middle east or the sunny island of the Aegan sea. [b]Terrain:[/b] 4
Among the Aesir, few actual formal schools of training exists. While Thor has measured up in both strength and skill over the years, there's no mentioning of him being trained by Tyr or even Odin himself. What Thor knows of fighting he has learned from years of giant killing and warfare agains the Jötun. Experience itself makes up for his prowess in combat. If, however, Thor can be said to hear prayers, he has probably seen many mortals fight eachother dying as they vie for his favor. Even if Thor is not the most clever of gods, he must have learned some from the failures and successes of men. [b]Training:[/b] 71
[size=6]Zeus[/size] While Zeus is often mentioned as a capable warrior and tactician, Zeus is often depicted as an aging deity. His white beard is always present and it's said that he aged to manhood in about a year to fight his father, the Titan Cronus. Zeus might be immortal, or he may not be ageless as some myths depict him as drinking the golden Nectar to keep his eternal adulthood. This however, is also true for Thor... It stands to reason however, that even if Zeus has a mere 10% chance of aging, the Sky Father is at least 1000 years older than the god of Thunder, making Zeus possibly slower than Thor... [b]Speed:[/b] 52
Zeus represents power beyond measurement. His son, Hercules, once held the World (or possibly the sky) aloof for hours while waiting for the Titan Atlas to return. Zeus is, throughout modern myths, depicted as having great strength. Through myths however, there are few scant records of him actually performing feats that rival those of Hercules or Thor, putting him at a significant lower strength level than Thor. [b]Strength:[/b] 71
In the myths, Zeus stood up to the Titans and persevered despite negative odds. His siblings survived being eaten alive by the Titan Cronus and being the sky itself, there's no reason to doubt that he also possess the endurance to resist a Titan's attempts at permanent killing him for a year. Greek myths also shows the Gods as nigh unkillable (some going so far as to say that the gods can't die), which would explain why the Titans are imprisoned in the depths of tartarus rather than being slain. [b]Endurance:[/b] 91
From the reaches of the North, inspiring gods such as Tiawaz, to the sands of Egypt, Zeus has traversed the width of the world and his myths has seen a lot of different terrains. used to living on the cold top of mt. Olympus and having seen both mountains, hills and dry plains, Zeus has a definite advantage over Thor in knowledge of how to fight in various terrain types. [b]Terrain:[/b] 6
Zeus came to manhood in less than a year, becoming a powerful young male who not only banished the titans but also fought them personaly. Among his guardians as a child, there was soldiers and small gods who protected him from the Titans and the threat of destruction. He son became the god of war Ares and he has sponsored the greeks in giving them the Spartans and creating the Myrmidions. He presided over the training of the rigiour military-athletic training of the Cretan paideia. There's no doubt that Zeus probably not only has recieved some military training, but that he also possesses a natural talent for warfare that can destroy other immortal foes. [b]Training:[/b] 83
This is, by far, the closest battle I've ever seen in the simulator before running it. Usually, the numbers tend to end up further away, but having judged each weapon and advantage the two gods possess, I hope this will end up an epic fight that will go down in history as the best fight the simulator has produced.
It was truly difficult to judge the two main weapons of the combatants, seeing how both are described as masters of the lightning. In the end I decided to aim for the more "cinematic" approach to Mjolnir and the Thunderbolt, letting Zeus have the advantage in hitting while Thor, with his strength, got the highest damage. It also took some time to decide the third and last advantage of Thor, because neither of them felt truly correct until I read up some more about him. No doubt others could come up with better ideas and I guess I'll see that in the comments...
I began this showdown when a friend of mine asked me "Who's most powerful, Zeus or Thor?" and I quickly began to bog down myself with the question... I decided that it was finally time to decide this for myself and I'm well aware that some of these statistics are based upon my personal opionion, but that is part of the charm with Deadliest Deity... Hopefully, the end result will once and for all settle...
WHO... IS... DEADLIEST?
[b][size=8]Prelude[/size][/b] ...Greece... The temple of Zeus... Olympia. Long abandoned by the worshippers of the Greek gods. A few men wanders up the stairs, brought there by the rumours of gold and treasure in the ancient temple. Their steps echo softly as they wander up the steps of the temple and as they enter the long ruined building, they see nothing.
"vaed er detta?" the leader asks, angry at the crumbled roof and the broken statue at the end of the temple. "vaer er allt gulde?" he growls, walking forward. he stops as he sees a statue of a long lost god. With a backhand of his sword, he shatters the marble statue, destroying the last image of the once great Greek god.
Thunder rumbles in the sky...
"vaer inte oroligae, det aer bare Tor som skaenka oss mod!" the leader speaks, only mere moments before thunder shatters the silence and slays the leader outright. The man crumples to the floor and the rest backs off as a voice rumbles. "begone intruders! you insult me, the Father of Skies!". Screaming, all but one man leaves the building. The statue, long smashed at the end of the room, suddenly comes alive as lightning dances over it. It shrinks down to the size of a man, his eyes glistening with fury. "You dare challenge me?!?" the leader of the Dodekhanteon says, towering over the man.
The viking, Erik Laufer, takes a step back, then says "Tor Odenson, skyddae mig! Draep jatten!". And mere moments later, the sky of the north crackles and Zeus's eyes widden as a towering god appears in the sky, his hair red and flowing in the wind. His muscles bulging and the hammer Mjolnir at his side.
Zeus' eyes crackles. "Ah..." he begins "...I knew this day would come... Let us see who the true master of the sky is!".
All over Greece, the sky darkens as thunder clouds roll in and hurricane winds begins to tear the land apart...